The Jesus Lizard are by far one of the most interesting and popular of the underground, post-punk rock outfits. Hailing from Chicago, they record and tour relentlessly. Their recordings come very close to being the very definition of the [Steve] Albini sound. With an increasing following they have now signed to a major label in order to satisfy the demand of their many fans. I talked to Mac MacNeilly, who plays drums, for about half an hour about life with the Lizard.

DiSCORDER: First off, I wanted to ask you about a Halloween show you played in Vancouver a couple of years ago. You guys were all dressed up in costume?
Mac: Yes, we all had certain costumes on.
And that David Yow was wearing only a pair of crotchless fishnet pantyhose?
I remember him looking pretty fetching.
Is David's nakedness a common experience?
It all depends if the mood strikes.
I've noticed an ever present Captain Beefheart influence in your band, especially in the guitar.
Some other people have said that. There's some very angular guitar work. Very percussive and different time signatures, not just 4/4. Most of the songs are blues based, as far as the guitar riff or something, but then it's just twisted or put in a different context in order to make it somehow uncomfortable. It almost feels like it's going to break apart but it still holds together. That's kind of a challenge, to make things flow and groove when it's not in 4/4 time. We don't want to do the math rock thing because we like being just a rock band. Something that people can still enjoy.
What albums have you recorded with Mr. Steve Albini?
Basically everything that we've done has been with Steve except for the live album and some parts of Lash. That was recorded in Boston and London. The new record, Shot, was recorded by Garth Richardson, who lives in Vancouver now.
I've noticed Albini's recent recording have a lot of sample-worthy sounds. How do you feel about people sampling your music?
I know of two songs that have been sampled on a cassette from a band called Fuck the Man. They sampled "Dudley" and "Monkey Trick." They mostly have the bass and drums cut to about two seconds. I like it. It's flattering to me that people would even want to use it. Some people have videos or bootlegs. We have never minded people doing that stuff, I'd just like to get a copy.
I read a quote from one of the band members saying that Liar is a much more accessible album than say, Goat, but for me, I wouldn't have been nearly as blown away had I listened to Liar first. Goat had an actual thing between songs and the way that the record happened to get mixed. I think that it just really sounds good. Everythink came together without much trying. It's one of my favourites too.
It also has a continuity of songs.
Yeah, it sounds like a whole piece. That's hard to achieve. It's not something that we did on purpose.
At first listen to Goat and Dudley especially it was very striking and the Jesus Lizard thing was very obvious. With the newer albums it's much less so.
I think that critics of the recent records should listen to those ones a little more and see what comes out of the woodwork, because it's a real strange record.
Were there any real differences working for a major label?
With this album we just gave them what we made and they accepted it with no questions at all. For people that like our band, it's really just a different logo on the back. All these business concerns are really just those of the band and shouldn't carry over into the enjoyment of music. Some of my favourite stuff has been on major labels. I don't really buy into the whole "indie versus major" thing and it bothers me that the people that are talking and screaming so much are the people who aren't even connected to the music industry, and they don't know that much about how it works. It's just reactiveness and that seems pretty silly to me. It's easy for people to take an emotional stand on an issue without really knowing all the facts. If you like a band you should trust their business sense. It they want to move to a different label, they're still recording their music. Trust them that it's going to be good, and if you don't like it, why is it necessarily because of their major label affiliations. I think those kinds of fans should give bands a little more credit. There's a lot of bands who sell out to their indie label in order to fit that label format. Why is Touch and Go the best indy label in the world?
We just get treated so fairly with [them]. You hear some bad stories about other labels, but Touch and Go have always gone out of their way to help us out. It's a very nice situation, you feel like you're with people you can trust. Total friends. That was it, that we were all just friends, not just business associates. And they're cool so there isn't any of that business/friends conflict.
They're also a very ecclectic label as far as bands on their roster, such as The Dirty Three from Australia.
They have really good taste. They're very forward thinking people. What about side projects? I know that Duane, your guitarist, is in another band.
Duane is in a band called The Dennison/Kimball Trio. But it's really a duo: Duane and this drummer, Jim Kimball, who used to be in the Laughing Hyenas, also on Touch and Go. They did a couple of records. It's almost like film music -- not jazz, not blues, it's very much its own thing, which makes it very interesting.
Did Seattle and the whole grunge thing matter to you?
We didn't really feel part of the grunge thing even though we got lumped into it because we were playing with [those] bands and at the same clubs. I don't think we ever have fit into any categories. I guess we're punk just because of the aggressiveness of our sound. We don't fit the grunge thing because we don't use distortion or power chords very much. We just think of ourselves as a rock band that's maybe a little out of left field for today's standards. We're not trying to be weird, though. It's too weird for some people and for others it's just not weird enough. I've been really happy that we've been able to do this kind of stuff and tour around considering the type of music we play, which is not going to be popular. We would like to reach more people.
I never thought of the Jesus Lizard as being able to cross over to such a wide audience. It surprised me because I thought the music was too weird to be popular at something like Lollapalooza.
It never occurred to me either. But we're still the same band that we always were. We've just done some weird gigs.
What was the idea behind the Nirvana split 7" that came out on Touch and Go?
That idea had been discussed for a couple of years. We played with them at Maxwells in Hoboken, NJ. One night David Yow [singer] and Kurt got to talking about the Sub Pop split singles and they thought that we should do one of those things. Nirvana had just signed to Geffen and Kurt was just super into it. He never forgot about it. Even with all the crap that was going on he just kept pressing for the 7". If it weren't for Kurt it would never have happened, because we didn't have any pull. He had to convince Geffen that this was something that he wanted to do so bad, and to do it, and get it done. There were a lot of lawyers going back and forth over something as simple as two songs from two bands. It ended up being a limited pressing of a hundred thousand. It was just an honour to play with them. It was really good as a friendship thing.
What's the most exotic place you've played?
We played some outdoor festivals in Osaka and Tokyo. We're going back in October to play some club shows there and also in Australia and New Zealand.
How was Osaka? Becuase they're known for their insane noise scene. What's happening there right now?
The bands there are very good and we get a good response there and in Tokyo. I'm looking forward to going back.
Did you play with the Boredoms?
Yeah, we played with them at those Osaka festivals. They're very nice people. They put on a really wild show.
There's a similarity in vocal styles. David Yow and Eye Yamataka both "sing" in that blurting, jumbly noise making style. But after listening to David's you start to hear the poetry he's rambling out. And there's some really quite brilliant words in there.
They definitely stand on their own as poetry. A lot of the words are dark, but there's an element of humour as well. In the whole band really. We take the music seriously but we try not to take ourselves seriously. People often perceive us as this really hard, dark band. That's not all we are there's funniness to it too. It's entertainment.
So is it art or entertainment?
Totally entertainment. There is a certain amount of art put into it, it's not just for the audience's laughs or anything. It's something that isn't suposed to be evaluated or compared to other things. Hopefully, we give people their money's worth. I think we do.
Would you consider yourself a classic rock fan?
Some of it I like. I'm 36, so I can remember back to when that stuff was being played in the mid '70s. I was driving around getting high and really listening to it. Zeppelin especially. I will always loop up to John Bonham, Keith Moon, Mitch Mitchell. Those guys were really putting a lot of energy into it. You could tell the whole band was in on the music. The drums were just as much a part of the whole thing as the guitar. The whole band was going nuts.
Do you think that in the future the Jesus Lizard will be considered classic rock?
No. Maybe in a certain weird chapter or in a foot note under post-punk, or I don't know what it will be described as at that time. I still maintain that we are just a rock band, but because of the nature of it, we get lumped in with what has been described as post-punk. We kind of know where we fit but we kind of don't fit at the same time.
Do you have any comments on the notion of the Jesus Lizard being the polar opposite of early AC/DC? Sort of like the other side of the coin. There's a similar heavy backbeat, only yours almost sounds as if you're playing their thing backwards, and the rhythm section is in the same vein. And you both have sort of a greasy, drunken, sweaty guy bubbering and stumbling around.
Yeah, but we don't have an Angus Young!